It was with amusement that I read in Deb Pressey’s Sunday N-G business column about the new upscale doggie boutique that will be occupying the former Gloria Jean’s coffe space in Marketplace Mall sometime this summer. Some friends and I had been talking recently that we were just waiting for one of these to open, although I thought sometime like this would be better suited for downtown Champaign or Urbana, a place where people could walk there with their dogs. (Some really cute pet boutiques I have been to: Barker and Meowsky in Chicago and Muttropolis in San Diego.) But my amusement quickly turned into dismay, and then disgust, when I got to the end and saw that this shop — Lucky Puppy — will also be selling puppies.
I’m sorry, but dogs should not be sold at the mall. Of course, these days designer dogs are big business — and can fetch big prices. But dogs don’t belong in cages at the mall. Adopting an animal isn’t the same thing as going to the Gap to get a new pair of pants. There is no return policy for a living, breathing animal. This is just a recipe for irresponsible pet ownership.
139 responses so far ↓
frugalmom // April 30, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Are you kidding me? Didn’t we have a pet shop in the mall once before? Ugh. I didn’t like the idea then and I don’t like it now.
motherjones-rn // May 1, 2007 at 12:45 pm
There was a pet shop in the mail a long time ago, and I was glad when it left town.
Please, adopt a pet from a shelter. You’ll be saving a precious life.
MJ
Carole // May 2, 2007 at 10:25 am
I was totally opposed to the pet store that we did have years ago and will be even more opposed to the Lucky Dog. Designer dogs – I have a Goldendoodle. Relinquished to Champaign County Humane Society at the age of 3 months because she shed. My lucky day to find her. And I know she is a doodle because the family brought her “papers” with her when she was relinquished. Every dog at the shelter is a “designer dog”. Support our shelter by featuring one of many looking for a home by showcasing them at “Lucky Dog”.
sdf // May 4, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Well put. I hope you’ll write a letter to the editor, or someone, about this. You’ve inspired me to do so, at least.
luckyandcharmed // May 9, 2007 at 9:37 pm
I was also appalled. I’m a crazy cat lady and dog-free, but no animal should live at the mall and be subjected to that noise, that stimuli, that atmosphere. I thought it was a neat store idea until they stated they would be featuring live animals for sale and my applause for their entrepreneurial spirit died away.
Betuana // May 19, 2007 at 9:43 pm
I just heard about this recently. There are several groups working to write letters to get this stopped. However, I am almost positive I heard at one point that it is actually ILLEGAL in champaign county for puppies and kittens to be sold in pet stores. They can have adoption areas to show animals from local rescues (like the cats at petsmart) but not a puppy/kitten sale area. I’m trying to track down where it says that currently so we can pull that out. I’m all for the idea of a store that has fun or cute things for pets, even upscale fru-fru things, but with so many homeless animals, there does NOT need to be another place supporting irresponsible and puppy mill breeders!
Jenna Z // June 6, 2007 at 11:38 am
I read this too and was so disappointed when I got to the part about puppies. I’d love an upscale pet supply shop and bakery! She says she works with the breeders! Right! If by breeders you mean Amish puppy mills and by work you mean pay then sure, you work with breeders. I’ve written to the mall once and will not be shopping any store in the mall while they allow her sell live animals. I have to go in the mall next month for a 4-H event so after I observe the shop, I will write the mall again. If anyone wants to name and address of the manager, I can get it to them.
Betuana // June 7, 2007 at 4:08 pm
We were walking around the mall today and saw the store. I only looked briefly. While across the way I saw what looked like guinea pigs, but by the time I got up close they had closed a drape and had a sign saying it was a “5 minute puppy break” time. They had a spot in the window for a puppy to play (a 1′ x 3′ area) and had had at least 3 rows of glass front cages with puppies in them that we saw from a distance. They had 2 little spots for people to go in and play with the puppies – and a note that you had to have an adult and clean your hands. I’m disturbed at the fact that they looked like guinea pigs at first glance – makes me think they might be WAY to young to be there…though I do thing the IL Dept of Ag has rules about age of puppies sold at stores (or shelters for that matter), so if thats the case they may put a stop to it….I didn’t stay long enough to look – I’m not sure I want to see….
The rest of the store was cute – cute clothes, collectibles, treats…its a shame she had to ruin it by offering puppies for sale…
With our community, and the awareness people have about issues, such stores have not set up here for a while. Hopefully the same community will make this store short lived – or at least the sale of live animals in it…
I’ve been to similar stores without the animal sales – they are great!
And if she REALLY wants puppies, couldn’t she have thought to talk to local shelters about having some there like the petsmart cat setup? Seems like that would be a much more acceptable situation….
Ignorance is bliss though, I don’t think she gets it…
If anyone knows more about it, definitely keep updates…hopefully we’ll see this “puppy mill outlet” end soon…
Carole // June 8, 2007 at 8:25 am
Yes, it is indeed a puppy mill outlet. Puppies are from brokers and mills in Missouri. There are additional puppies housed in the back of the store that is not visible to the public. The prices are astronomical – Yorkies for $1500; Pugs for $1200, etc. Lucky Puppy has a Bolonoodle which I can only assume is a Bolognese/Poodle cross. Store opened for business on Monday the 4th. I will be visiting there this week-end. I referred to the original article in the N-G and it stated that she had made friends with breeders. I doubt she made friends with puppy mills and puppy brokers. The puppies are not AKC registered or so I understand. But they are apparently doing a brisk business this week.
Carole // June 8, 2007 at 8:27 am
One more remark to substantiate my comment about the mills in Missouri. Paperwork for one of the puppies indicated it was from Thunder River Kennels in Thunder River, Missouri. Check out their website.
http://www.petpuppies.com/network.html
Jenna Z // June 8, 2007 at 11:11 am
Oh how I wish she had just stuck with the cute stuff! My dog cries out to be spoiled!
The address to write to is:
Dennis Robertson
General Manager
Market Place Shopping Center
2000 North Neil St.
Champaign, Illinois 61820
Tell him you won’t be shopping ANY store while puppies are available like handbags or sunglasses.
lbotp // June 8, 2007 at 11:40 am
Thanks everyone. I will definitely be putting pen to paper and writing to Dennis. I think it would also be a good idea to write to the store owner directly (respectfully, of course).
Carole // June 8, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I was there today around noon or a bit later. The puppies that were on view are being watered with rodent waterers – like hamsters or guinea pigs. I was very nice and asked if the puppies were all from local breeders. I got a very scripted answer along the lines that they use buyers that adhere to the highest standards when it comes to kennels and dogs and, if not, they do not purchase puppies from those kennels. I did ask why the water in the water containers was pink in color and was told it was “puppy gatorade”. I would guess it is a mixture of pedialyte and antibiotics. I thanked her and then went to the Mall general office and filed a complaint. Again, I was very nice but pointed out that puppies are not merchandise. I showed them my bag from Macy’s and explained that this was merchandise. I filled out a formal complaint … “Lucky Dog? Not lucky puppies.” And, as always, being nice gets you much further. On display today were Cavaliers, Papillons, one Silky Terrier, one English Bulldog and one Bichon. It’s fairly obvious there are additional puppies in the back.
Ruu // June 17, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I’m disgusted by this, will be writing a letter and getting some answers.
Jen // June 18, 2007 at 8:36 am
I was there over the weekend and left very upset. I am on the shelter foundation board in Vermilion County. We put 232 animals to sleep in May alone because there are not enough homes. Yet people like this think it is all fun and games with these animals. I wish this lady could see the truth the way I have to see it on a daily basis. Also, many of these dogs more than likely are going to have some medical problems because of the way they are bred. It is just very sad. Has the N-G run any letters to the editor yet? I was also wondering about a protest or some other sort of way we could get the info out to the general public?
lbotp // June 18, 2007 at 10:03 am
Welcome to those of you who have found us via a post on the Chambana livejournal site.
I hope that the community outrage regarding this issue will not begin and end here. Here is one way to express your feelings to the folks at Marketplace Mall without ever leaving your chair — a link to contact the management with your concerns:
http://www.marketplacemall.com/html/contactus.asp
I have not yet been to the mall to see what is going on there. This post originated from a News-Gazette business column almost two months ago. I plan on heading out there sometime in the next couple of weeks. Those of you who have been there, please continue to leave your impressions. It is important that we have facts, not just conjecture.
Email me at lbotp16(at)gmail(dot)com if you would like to pursue this further. In the meantime, write to the News-Gazette, contact mall management and don’t be afraid to confront the owner (respectfully, of course).
starbuckssuperfan // June 18, 2007 at 3:52 pm
I visited the “Lucky” puppy last week and it horrified me. The pens that the puppies were kept in were roughly the size of two smaller aquariums put side-by-side. Yes they are drinking out of guinea-pig water bottles. Yes they are resting on shavings–which btw, guarantees any one who purchased one of these puppies will have a very very very hard time housebreaking them. Yes they are entirely too young to be subjected to daily handling by random potential buyers (puppies do not have full immunity until 4 mo). Parvo is everywhere.
I contacted the mall management and informed them that I would not shop at the mall at all (and would encourage my friends to do the same) until this situation is remedied.
Carole // June 19, 2007 at 9:31 am
We have found out that one of the “employees” at Lucky Puppy is actually an employee of Hunte Corporation – one of the largest, if not the largest, puppymill brokers in the country.
http://www.huntecorp.com/details.aspx
He volunteered this information to someone that was there yesterday. Asking questions about the origin of the puppies. This prompted another employee to contact mall security. A friend was there yesterday and posed a question to another employee – she didn’t know what kind of dog would be good for her elderly mother. She was told to just let them know what she wanted and they would get it for her. Puppy mills.
Sue // June 19, 2007 at 1:32 pm
I have e-mailed the parent company of Market Place Mall twice. Their e-mail address is:
jenny@ggpshoppingmall.com
I’m totally sick about this. I am willing to help in any way to get them out of here and shut them down.
Carole // June 19, 2007 at 2:05 pm
I was there again today. One of the puppies available was a “Miniature Chihuahua”. Please. There is no miniature chihuahua breed. I have no idea what the $$ were but the young woman shopper holding the puppy asked the puppy, “Are you worth that much?”. They now have fliers in the front window, the counter and the front of the viewing cages touting their sanctimonious “ethical and humane core values”. I am even more convinced this is a front for a large puppy broker.
SR // June 19, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Champaign County Municipal Code CH7: Article 1
Sec. 7-4 Regarding Cruelty towards animals
http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10520&sid=13
See a2 and a5
Mary // June 20, 2007 at 11:46 am
Were you aware The Lucky Puppy will not show an individual the registration papers on a puppy unless a deposit is made towards the prospective purchase? Do any of other mall merchants make a practice of hiding labels on their goods and services only to reveal them after the dress, diamond ring, or dishwasher is in the bag? This practice does not reflect the article in The News-Gazette printed prior to the opening of The Lucky Puppy establishment. The article mentioned the owner had built relationships with local dog breeders as a means of providing inventory. Since when is Missouri (puppy mill capitol of the US) considered “local”? No reputable breeders I know in this area or any area would provide litter lots for the purpose of retailing puppies in a store.
The Lucky Puppy is merely an opportunity to cash in on accessory animals made popular by current inmate Paris Hilton. Where do you think those Chihuahuas, Italian Greyhounds, Poodles, Papillons, Puggles, and Yorkies will find themselves once the fad is diminished and the novelty wears off? Will they be able to return the purchase with a pulse to those “responsible breeders” from whom the puppy originated? What responsibility will The Lucky Puppy take when the puppy, originally purchased for life, ends up with its designer carrier in a dumpster because the fad has faded and the previous owner is running towards the next level of trendy and chic?
As a consumer, I vote with my dollars. I have no intention of making another purchase in Market Place Mall or perimeter merchants in GPP store fronts until The Lucky Puppy no longer exists as your tennant, selling dogs as adornments. I took this stand a few years back when the mall made a similar error and rented a store front to Pass Pets. I wasn’t the only consumer making the decision to shop elsewhere. Now we have the internet…..cyberspace makes not shopping at Market Place Mall even easier.
Heart49 // June 24, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Thanks for the link to the marketplace website. I wrote and told them that my family and I will not shop in or around the mall until Lucky puppy stops selling live puppies.
kungfoo // June 27, 2007 at 3:05 am
I have gone to Lucky Puppy twice now to look at dogs since my girlfriend and I have wanted to get an english bulldog for quite some time now. The first time was about 4 weeks ago and the second time was today.
I first came across this blog a few days after my first visit to Lucky Puppy, and I was in total disbelief of some of the comments. My first visit had been phenomenal. I had the chance to interact with the bulldog and got a really good feeling of its personality. Furthermore, a bulldog breeder who knew the owner of the store was there and really talked with me in depth about what it means to take care of the bulldog and what I needed to provide the dog. The owner seemed “friendly”, but when I think about it, she seemed very nervous and she was very cautious about what she said infront of the breeder. When I told the breeder that I didn’t think i could take the dog because I wanted my girlfriend to be there to choose and because my current living situation in a no-dog apartment, the breeder immediately told me that I made a very good decision, and the owner of Lucky Puppy nodded in agreement. The breeder even gave me a number and told me to come visit her whenever I wanted if I just wanted to learn about bulldogs and interact with the 6 that she owned. I was excited and spent the last 4 weeks looking into more information about raising a bulldogs.
Today, when my girlfriend came back to Champaign, I immediately took her to Lucky Puppy. They had a different bulldog, but we wanted to get a good feeling of it’s temperment. However, when we asked to see the bulldog, the lady at the register immediately asked if we were serious about buying it and wouldn’t let us see it if we weren’t. Of course we were serious, but we wanted to see if we liked the dogs personality. When they brought the dog out, it was really tired and fell asleep immediately. Meanwhile, two of the employees were just proding us to buy it. They even lied to us multiple times about bulldog facts that I had learned directly from the breeder on my first visit! Since the dog was so tired, we didn’t feel that we could see it’s temperment, so we asked if we could come back tomorrow in the morning when it was fully awake. The employees wouldn’t accept that answer, and they brought out another dog that the bulldog could play with, but when the bulldog didn’t wake up, the employee shook it awake. I was very upset at that point. The treatment of that dog in that manner just so they could make an instant profit off a sale really pissed me off. Secondly, it was a totally different feeling from my first visit where it seemed like they wanted us to find the right dog AND for the dog to find the right owner. Instead they didn’t care how responsible the owner would be. I realized that the only reason I had been treated so kindly on my first visit was because the breeder was there. Furthermore, I feel that many breeders who provided the dogs to the shop might be fooled by the owner of Lucky Puppy. My girlfriend and I have vowed never to go to that store again.
I will be contacting the breeder that I met on my first visit to let her know of the situation. I am also going to contact the mall and the police about what happened. I have realized how important it is to get a dog from a responsible breeder. This blog has really openned up my eyes. Thanks.
Carole // June 27, 2007 at 2:41 pm
I was there (again) today and saw the English bulldog puppy. He was sound asleep but seemed to have rapid respiration. There is now a sign posted that states they will monitor the handling of puppies due to health concerns. In addition to the English bulldog they also have a French Bulldog puppy. Business must be brisk because they now have 2 puppies to a cage. Thanks for sharing your experience – education is the key. There will be a news story on WAND tonight at 6 and again at 10:00.
Mary // June 28, 2007 at 10:11 pm
I came across your thread while searching for awards for an upcoming Chihuahua Speciaty Show. You are so right to be concerned about the sale of puppies from a store front. The AKC Code of Sportsmanship states, “Sportsmen will always consider paramount the welfare of their dog.” The Chihuahua Club of America’s Code of Ethics states in part, “I will never knowingly sell puppies to wholesalers, laboratories or to pet stores and will encourage any puppy buyer to behave similarly.” It may take more time and research to find a reputable breeder that will part with a well bred puppy, but it is so worth the time and education. Many of those breeders will willingly offer help for the lifetime of your new puppy and in my case, if for any reason a puppy buyer can’t keep the dog, I want it to come back to me. Whether it’s 2 years or 12 years down the road. And, as several other writers have pointed out, there are many wonderful shelter dogs waiting for loving homes, some of whom are purebreds. Good luck in your efforts to end the sale of these vulnerable puppies from this store front.
diane // June 28, 2007 at 11:30 pm
kungfoo, thank you so much for your personal account of your experience.
two interesting tidbits, if people haven’t seen them yet:
the champaign county humane society has their official responce to lucky puppy on their front page (www.cuhumane.org) and again here: http://cuhumane.org/puppymills/index.html
a comment on the livejournal community’s posting about lucky puppy: http://community.livejournal.com/chambana/1604755.html?thread=11401619#t11401619
and another comment from the same place: http://community.livejournal.com/chambana/1604755.html?thread=11360403#t11360403
p.s. sorry if the links are messy; I’ve never posted on a wordpress blog before so I’m hoping they’ll be hyperlinked, but if not … sorry.
Tiffany // June 29, 2007 at 4:12 pm
I just visited Lucky Puppy today and I was really bothered by the small areas for the dogs and the fact that there are now 2 dogs to a cage. None of the dogs were awake. They still had an English bulldog puppy and he was sound asleep. I have a 3 year old English bulldog and they do look like they are having a hard time breathing when they sleep. I just felt like they all needed to get out and run around. I would definitely not recommend buying a dog from a pet store. They are extremely overpriced and there are no guarantees. If you want to buy a full blooded dog then you should work with a breeder and meet the dogs parents too to get any idea of their health and temperament. If you are not concerned about having a full blooded dog then I would definitely recommend the human society.
anna // June 30, 2007 at 9:03 pm
I LOVE LUCKY PUPPY!
The puppies are so cute and HAPPY! The people where soooo nice and they loved their puppies so much! They were very concerned with the future care of the dogs. I would suggest going their longer than two minutes with your preconceived notions of doggie hell!
GOOOO LUCKY PUPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!
woof woof!
raquel // June 30, 2007 at 9:08 pm
In response to Tiffany’s message: I don’t think you can buy “full blooded dogs” and the “human” society?? You also stated that all the dogs were asleep, yet you felt they needed to get up and run around. How can a sleeping dog seem to have the need to run? In addition the lucky puppy does guarantee the health of their dogs for a full three years. I don’t know of any breeders in the area who can promise those same results.
This has been edited by lbotp. I will not tolerate name calling.
Carole // July 2, 2007 at 9:27 am
You might just want to read the “guarantee” a bit closer than you apparently did. First year credit of the original purchase price toward another puppy. Second year 50% credit. Third year 25%. Lucky Puppy’s veterinary staff must concur with the owner’s veterinary diagnosis in order to qualify for the “warranty”. Total crap. Oh, and bulldogs are excluded for hip problems.
Lisa // July 3, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Lucky Puppy does explain to it’s customer’s that purchasing a puppy should not be an impulse buy, and that it is a lifetime decision. They also inform you on how to care for your new puppy -food, vet visits, and supply the new owner with puppy info packets. People can read those before purchasing the puppy, to get information you just have to ask. Assuming will never get you anywhere.
Lisa // July 3, 2007 at 4:03 pm
I agree with the warranty, what would you like to see a full refund? Some information has been left out. The warranty includes any diagnose of the puppy within the first 14 days (parvo-distemper-hepatitis-canine influenza) they will treat at no cost to the buyer. 14 days allows plenty of time to take your new puppy to your vet of choice.
Jean Dennison // July 4, 2007 at 8:58 am
I am the IL/KY coordinator for Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Rescue – I have fostered and transported cavaliers that have come from MO puppy mills – we see the results of that poor breeding. Every pup you buy from a pet store comes from a puppy mill or through a broker. NO responsible pet owner will want their pup sold in a pet store. MO is the biggest puppymill state – PA is a close secondwith all the Amish in Lancaster Co finding it more profitable to breed dogs than grow crops. Some very nasty puppy mills have been closed in Lancaster Co in the past couple years. Don’t get me started on Designer Dogs — the earlier writer was correct – go the the shelters – all their dogs are designer dogs! Just don’t cost as much. Money talks – the only way to make a difference to get this store out of the mall is not to buy anything from it and write the Mall itself stating your displeasue that they let a store in to sell live pups and you won’t be frequenting the mall as long as the store is there.
Jean Dennison
IL/KY Coordinator for CKCSCR
Emily Blue // July 4, 2007 at 5:59 pm
It is not fair for those puppies or the countless dogs in the humane society that are euthanized each year. And what a horrible place to promote something like that. The mall – a place where conspicuous consumption rules supreme. Be heard, write the mall, the News-Gazzette, the actual business owners or just express your feelings to anyone that will listen.
red // July 5, 2007 at 12:35 pm
To everyone who is against “Lucky Puppy,”
First let me just ask, don’t you have anything better to do with your time? Second let me ask, do you have to absolutely complain about everything possible? I am not against the store obviously, because the puppies are not being hurt, what so ever, no matter what you want to think. I am a volunteer at the Champaign County Humane Society, and I love dogs. I am a firm believer that you should get a dog from a shelter because they can not continue to be living without a family. But let me ask you this, is that not what they puppies at Lucky Puppy are doing? That’s what I thought. Just because a dog has not been homeless once in their life doesn’t mean that it doesn’t deserve a home. That is the exact same thing as saying rich people don’t deserve jobs, because there are poor people out there that could use them more. Are you saying that you want someone who is not qualified for a job to get it just because they supposedly need it more than someone who is qualified? That is being prejudice, and it’s not too far away from what you are doing now. Why sit there and question it every day, when the fact that they are there is not the thing to worry about, obviously they are going to be there, whether you want them to be or not, so why not give them homes, just like ones in a shelter. As for the health risk for the puppies, there is none. There is more of a health risk at a shelter than there is in a mall. Malls are cleaner than shelters, and the puppies aren’t sleeping on concrete floors and getting one bowl of food a day. There are still people coming to see them every day, but the difference is, at the shelter there are hand sanitizing stations all around that you are supposed to use before touching each animal, but no one watches and makes sure of this. At the store, there is someone who puts the sanitizer in your hand and doesn’t let you touch an animal unless you do, and on top of that you have to wear protection on your feet, so that you don’t track in something from the outside. Also they are not too young to be there. If you were getting a puppy from a person, how old are they when they let them go, at least 8 weeks, every puppy in that store is older than that, for those of you who can’t count, that’s 2 months. So if you think they look like guinea pigs, maybe you should get some glasses and realize that you are not insulting the people who run the store, you are insulting the puppies. Once again that is like saying that a kid is ugly trying to upset their parents, you are most likely just going to upset the kid. So before you go and complain about the health risks one more time, think again. Every person I talk to that is looking for a pet I refer to the humane society. I am getting ready to get another dog from there, but the one that I have now did not come from there. I believe that buying a dog isn’t about finding the cutest one, or the most popular breed. If you want a dog, you should have a list of what you want in a dog, like one that plays a lot, one that is good with kids, or one that just wants to lay around a lot. Once you have your requirements go and search for your dog. I would say start out at a shelter, then if you don’t find one there that you want, look elsewhere. The puppies didn’t ask to be in the store any more than the ones did in the shelter. So please don’t take it out on the dogs. As for the guy with the bulldog story, it is possible that the owner is unaware of the situation and how her employees are acting. I would say make her aware of the situation and if nothing gets done about it, then go over her head. For the people who make this store their whole lives, while you are in the process of shutting this store down, think about where these puppies are going to end up, and that shutting it down may not be all good. And just because a couple of people don’t want to shop at the mall anymore, doesn’t mean the mall is going to shut down. There are plenty of people that are still going to shop there, so I say don’t waste your time. And remember, instead of filling your eyes full of hate towards the owner, maybe you should fill them with love for the puppies, and don’t be so pessimistic about it all.
diane // July 5, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Red: while I respect your opinion I have two points I’d like to make:
1. You claim that the puppies will be around, so they might as well be in the store and have the chance of going to a good home (“… while you are in the process of shutting this store down, think about where these puppies are going to end up, and that shutting it down may not be all good”). This is a flawed argument; the more people who buy puppies from lucky puppy or any other pet store, the more puppies will be ordered and the more puppies will be bred for stores of this nature. Buying a puppy at that store is actively supporting the idea that puppies should be sold at the mall.
2. You claim that no amount of boycotting the mall is going to stop the store (“There are plenty of people that are still going to shop there, so I say don’t waste your time.”) First of all, this is not neccessarily true — boycots have worked in the past. And secondly, just because something has a low probability of success … is that a good reason to not even try? I recycle as much as I can. The difference to the world that me recycling or not recycling makes is pretty small, but I’m confident that, if the majority of people recycled, the difference could be profound. And I’d like to be part of that majority, so I recycle hoping that the little I do helps.
SR // July 5, 2007 at 4:23 pm
1. This pet store allegedly uses puppy mills. Supporting puppy mills continues the practice of forced, unhealthy, unsanctioned breeding of dogs. If puppy mills were no longer profitable(i.e. people refused to buy from dealers of puppy mills) , they probably would not stay in business long.
2. Breeders allow you to take puppies home at 8 weeks; however, you the owner can control the environment the puppy encounters thereonafter. The owner can wait to introduce the puppy until it is fully vaccinated. Purell does not kill parvo. The humane society quarantines and screens dogs before putting them in common. The Lucky Puppy physically cannot quarantine the puppies in such a way.
3. Perhaps the person meant “they look like they’re being treated like guinea pigs.” Dogs should not be confined in glass aquariums.
4. “don’t you have anything better to do with your time?” I don’t think “giving a damn” takes that much time. We’re talking, typing, not planning a rally. Don’t you have anything better to do with your time than to compose a lengthy, poorly written, logically flawed response?
“do you have to complain about everything possible?” Do you? You do realize, you’re complaining about complaining. Several people have said they like the idea of a pet goods store in the mall; its simply not necessary to sell puppies. I imagine dog biscuits for $1 ea. and designer dog collars have high enough profit margins.
Carole // July 6, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Red, puppies at CCHS do not sleep on concrete floors nor are they fed once a day. As a “volunteer” you should be more aware and, perhaps, a bit more accurate in your accounting. Yes, the puppies at Lucky Puppy may be 8 weeks old … but how long do you think it takes to get a trailer load of puppies from Arizona or Oklahoma to Champaign?
red // July 6, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Diane- My argument was not flawed, if you would have read it carefully you would see that it says, no matter if people want the puppies to be there they are still going to be there being sold. Then later on in the paragraph I stated that if the store did happen to close down, think about where the puppies might be going. The two had nothing to do with each other, but nice try. And yes buying puppies from the store will promote more puppies coming to be sold there, but I never said that it wouldn’t. And what is wrong with that again?? That’s right, nothing. Like I already said the puppies aren’t being hurt, and if there are people in this town that are willing to pay that much for a puppy, then the store is going to keep going, and you are going to have a hard time convincing those people not to. Also the part about boycotting the mall and the store not closing is another thing that I did not say. Once again if you would have read carefully you would have seen that I said that not shopping at the mall would not shut down the MALL, not the store. I was responding to someone else’s comment, who stated that the mall would close, but I actually read their comment.
SR- I wasn’t trying to imply that selling a puppy at 8 weeks is something that is done, I was stating the fact that the puppies aren’t too young to be there, and most of them are at least 10 weeks old. The person who said the guinea pig thing was not trying to imply that the dogs are being treated like them, he said that they looked like them because they were too young. The whole time issue, first you all aren’t just typing, I believe in almost every comment it says “hey guys lets all boycott the mall, and write to security, and the news paper, so we can look like good people, blah blah blah.” So that’s where the whole having something better to do comment came in, I never said anything about talking about it and wasting time, did I? Nope, sure didn’t. Thanks. Also I am most definitely not complaining, I am stating facts, and pointing out how stupid it is to try and take every issue into your hands, like all of you tree huggers do. (as quoted by the owner, ha.) Example, the war, the store, the pollution of gas, or whatever your complaints of the week are.
Carole- Although I love how you try to insult me being a volunteer, I am not wrong, the dogs DO sleep on concrete floors, there are maybe some beds in a few cages, but not every single one. That is exactly why I have gotten 3 dogs from the humane society that have had kennel cough because of sleeping on the concrete floors, and the staff even tells the adopters that is why. The dogs are fed once a day, maybe once before closing, and I know this because I am the one that does it. They even make it a point to tell you in volunteer orientation to never feed the dogs, and not to feel sorry for them. The only thing they can do is fill up water bowls. Thanks, but unless you sit at the humane society all day long and watch when they are fed, don’t try and tell me other wise. Once again the comment about being over 8 weeks old was just making a point that the dogs are not too young to be there. If every puppy there is 10 weeks old, and the breeder gives them away at 8 weeks old, that gives them 2 weeks to get the puppies. But since they aren’t “shipped” from anywhere, that doesn’t matter.
So I love how every single person that replied to my comment didn’t have one. I replied to other peoples direct comments, not someone who was talking about other peoples comments, so maybe if you want to try and say that I am wrong, read theirs first. But keep the comments coming, because you are just proving to everyone that you really have nothing better to do. Also go ahead and say that I have nothing better to do, because I will prove you wrong again, now I am defending myself, not spending time trying to shut down someone’s business. Thanks.
SR // July 6, 2007 at 4:36 pm
1. With regards to your comment that boycotting is a waste of time: boycotting the mall as long as lucky puppy sells puppies is not a significant expenditure of time. In fact, since people choosing not to shop at the mall are no longer taking the time to do so, it is in fact saving time. It is no major hardship to do without the latest in rayon and polyester at the limited.
2. The puppies ARE too young to be at the lucky puppy; unless you have proof that they are 4 months old. Puppies are not fully vaccinated until 4 mo. They can be taken by the owner at 8 weeks but parvo and other communicable diseases are not fully immunizable at that point. That is why new owners of (any) young puppies must be extremely careful. Therefore, it is not prudent to have non-fully immunized puppies in an environment where they could by touched by people who can carry many of these illnesses. Warranty or not. For example, a person owns an adult dog (which can carry but not show many illnesses) decides to visit a puppy at a pet store: the puppy is vulnerable to any disease that person may carry. Once again, I state, parvo and distemper cannot be killed by Purell and both are extremely dangerous for puppies.
3. “So I love how every single person that replied to my comment didn’t have one.” One what? Ethos is an important element to rhetorical writing, and correct grammar and sentance structure are essential to proper establishment of authority.
4. Are you stating facts or illustrating your own myopic opinions? “pointing out how stupid it is to try and take every issue into your hands” Calling something or someone “stupid” is a matter of opinion; it is most certainly not a fact.
diane // July 7, 2007 at 1:05 am
red — I’ll grant you, this is a small point but your holier-than-thou attitude and extremely rude tone have annoyed me. You wrote this:
“Once again if you would have read carefully you would have seen that I said that not shopping at the mall would not shut down the MALL, not the store. I was responding to someone else’s comment, who stated that the mall would close, but I actually read their comment.”
Please, show me what comment you were replying to. I could not find any mention in any of the comments of boycotting the mall to shut down the mall, only of boycotting the mall to shut down Lucky Puppy.
And I’d like you to consider this: you make fun of everyone who has posted here with their concerns, calling us tree-huggers (yes, you’re quoting the owner of Lucky Puppy but you’re choosing to use that quote) and telling us we have too much time on our hands. Please keep in mind that most of the people who have posted have one thing in mind: the well-being of the puppies that are being sold in the store. We might have a different view of what’s in their best interests than you, but talking down to us isn’t going to make us respect your opinion any, it just reinforces the idea that supporters of the store are close-minded people who refuse to acknowledge there could be a problem and instead brand us all hippies.
And one last thing: most of us aren’t trying to shut down the Lucky Puppy. At the very least I’d like proof that the dogs came from responsible, local breeders (puppy mills do not count) and since the owner is refusing to show proof that these puppies did in fact come from local breeders, it makes me think that she can’t. If you read some of the earlier comments you’ll see that most people WANT to support Lucky Puppy — so long as it isn’t selling puppies in the mall. If the owner of the store decided to stop carrying puppies and instead focus on the expensive froo-froo and hand-made biscuits, everyone who has posted here (from what I can understand) would be perfectly happy.
Kate // July 7, 2007 at 2:44 pm
As a staff member of the Champaign County Humane Society, I feel that it is necessary to respond to information posted as a comment on this blog by a person purporting to be a CCHS volunteer.
I have been keeping tabs on this thread about the Lucky Puppy Boutique, and have been thrilled to see that there are so many people in our community who are willing to take the time and energy to research pet stores, puppy mills, and the practices of animal welfare organizations. Personally, I am extremely saddened that a store in Champaign-Urbana is selling puppies, and I am also worried about the impact this will have on the homeless animal population, which is already excessive.
Comments posted on this site about the cleanliness, feeding practices, and disease at CCHS are not accurate by any means. Shelter staff members are the only persons responsible and allowed to feed the shelter animals, and they are fed according to standard amounts utilized by the makers of the food, Hill’s Science Diet. Animals with special dietary needs are fed accordingly.
Kennel cough (known as Bordatella Brontiseptica) is not transmitted via concrete floors. All dogs are vaccinated for Bordatella on intake, but it is not 100% effective, and animals who are vaccinated can still come down with kennel cough. The vaccine will, however, reduce the severity of clinical signs of the infection. The floors in the dog kennels at the shelter are coated in a slick epoxy that actually prevents the bacteria from sticking to the kennel surfaces, and allows the shelter staff to clean and disinfect the kennels thoroughly. Kennel cough is most commonly transmitted from dog to dog, or from people who do not sanitize their hands between handling animals. The shelter staff and volunteers do try to enforce hand washing and sanitization practices, but we are a limited by staff and resources.
Anyone with questions regarding CCHS policies and procedures may contact us at 217-344-7297. I am also available via email: shelter.manager@cuhumane.org.
sandra barbee // July 8, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Here we go again with those questions about the breeder being answered in an unknown foreign language-Yadayadayada.,
For those of you near please don’t shop there and certainly discourage your friends. I will also send an email.
Sandra
sarah // July 18, 2007 at 5:39 pm
ok. If you don’t like the idea of “Lucky Puppy”, don’t shop there. It’s as simple as that. But other people do like it. It is very hard to find designer puppys around this area, so if we can get them at some place local where we go alot of the time, why not? I agree that the puppys should have more room to romp around, and that they are VERY high priced, but if you want to pay that much money for a puppy [and take the risk of not being able to return it] I say go ahead. The mall is a very public place which makes it VERY convenient for buying a puppy. Like some other people have said, the people are friendly, and the enviornment is MUCH better than the humain society [in areas such as smell, ect.]. I don’t have anything wrong with the humain society, but if you would rather buy your puppy at Lucky Puppy, that’s your choice.
Daisy // July 19, 2007 at 8:21 am
I think Sarah (July 18th entry) exemplifies the clientele that Lucky Puppy is targeting:
1. Indifferent to the suffering of dogs at puppy mills
2. Uneducated in basic humane care of animals (as well as basic grammar)
3. Young enough to be bamboozled by a fast-talking Lucky Puppy employee
4. Old enough to have a credit card
Golden // July 19, 2007 at 8:50 am
Daisy, you are very astute! Puppy buying should never be “convenient”. It’s a lifetime commitment. Our shelters are full of (designer) dogs and cats that at one point in their lives were “convenient” to someone. And of course the employees are friendly – they are catering to the clientele and pushing puppies out the door. Their responsibility ends the moment the transaction is finished. And orders are then placed to “responsible” breeders to get another bunch of 8 week old puppies du jour in the shop.
Mandi // July 19, 2007 at 9:25 am
Okay so I’m a sucker for a cute face and I did in fact purchase a puppy from the boutique. I know all the reasons to NOT buy a puppy from a pet store as my parents were breeders when I was younger. I however could not leave this little girl behind. I feel like I rescued her. The boutique recommened me to their “vet” in Rantoul. I took my little Sophie there (per the contract you have to with in three days). The “vet” didn’t even weigh her! The “exam” was over in two mins. I called the boutique to tell them about my vet experience and they said and i quote ” well that’s why we recommend one person in particular as everyone else is not as trained”. Excuse me? I also learned that my puppy has an open fontanelle (common for toy dogs) but the store made NO mention of it, even thought I found it in very tiny print on my paperwork. After taking her to my vet in the city.. I have a puppy with kennel cough, and a heart mummur, and potential eye problems. The breeder information on the paperwork..no phone number and can’t be found online. My vet asked to contact the breeder as ANY REAL BREEDER WILL NOT ISSUE PUPPIES FOR RESALE. I need to get the parentage health information for my vet so we can have some advance notice on what’s to come for Sophie. Respectable breeder’s will issuse this information at any time you ask for it.
I have contaced the store three times and have left messages to no avail.
In short when you buy a puppy from a retail store those puppies are most likely purchased from puppy mills. Real breeders will sell dogs to pet stores. I paid a ridiculous amount of money for a potentialy very sick little puppy. I KNEW this going in. What would have happened to her if I had not taken her away, I can’t even think about it. Sophie is very loving, active little girl…despite her problems, and I love her. I would never recommend buying a puppy retail, and I will never recomend this store. However, those little guys need love and rescuing too!
I am thinking about contacting the C-U paper and telling them my story. Maybe it will help spur the public into action and get this place puppy free!
Mandi // July 19, 2007 at 9:28 am
sorry..real breeders WILL NOT sell puppies to pet stores.
SR // July 19, 2007 at 10:10 am
Please please please contact the News Gazette Mandi. Your story, especially since it is well-documented (i.e. a good paper trail), would be an ideal topic for a feature on the dangers of puppy-vending pet stores.
Daisy // July 19, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Mandi (and anyone else who has bought a puppy from Lucky Puppy),
Dave Benton of WCIA is putting together a story about Lucky Puppy. He wants to talk to anyone who has purchased a puppy there (both positive and negative experiences). You can reach him through the news room number at 373-3650.
Tief // July 20, 2007 at 6:31 am
Mandi –
Would you mind revealing the breeder’s name and address? If not on this blog, please shoot me an email: tief@insightbb.com. I might be able to help you get some info.
Thanks.
diane // July 21, 2007 at 10:01 am
this is completely spiteful of me — but I see that red has yet to answer any of the replies made to him, despite his request that we reply to him “… because I will prove you wrong again, now I am defending myself, not spending time trying to shut down someone’s business.”
lori // July 21, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Who was the vet in Rantoul?
emma // July 22, 2007 at 8:18 pm
I have a friend who had such heartbreak with a puppy from this place. You cannot imagine what she went through. Those of you who speak in defense of this store do not know what you are truely defending.
Daisy // July 23, 2007 at 7:24 am
Emma,
Please, please, please encourage your friend to contact Dave Benton at WCIA (373-3650). She will not be required to appear on camera or give her name on the air (unless she wants to). If she decides to tell her story, they will need to verify that she bought the puppy at Lucky Puppy (a sales receipt), but her name does not have to be part of the public story.
We must speak out against this place or the suffering will continue.
frogpink // July 23, 2007 at 3:57 pm
I hate the idea of a pet store in the mall and therfore wouldn’t want to give money to them but if we boughtthem wouldn’t we be saving them? I mean really. How well could these “mall dogs” be treated? Take that into consideration…
SR // July 23, 2007 at 4:22 pm
If people didn’t BUY them, they wouldn’t SELL them. They don’t sell them, they stop ordering from puppy mills. Puppy mills don’t have customers, they stop producing puppies.
Think of it like clothes that go out of style–people stop wanting them, they stop buying them. The stores stop carrying them, the manufacturers stop making them.
It’s not a matter of saving the puppy in the window, its a matter of stopping the orders of all future puppies.
One shudders to think about what happens to unsold puppies. I’d like to hope they go to humane societies or breed rescues.
emma // July 23, 2007 at 9:42 pm
What if she ’s not allowed to talk?
Daisy // July 24, 2007 at 9:21 am
Emma,
I’m not sure what you mean by “not allowed to talk.” The only way for a business to buy a person’s silence is for that business to pay specifically for the service of not discussing a particular issue with the press.
If, for example, your friend had her original purchase price refunded (but not an additional amount of money), there would be no agreement. Of course, an unethical business might imply that by refunding the money, they are buying her silence, but they’re not.
Even if someone accepts money in agreement to not speak to the press and then later on they change their mind and release information, the only recourse the business would have is to get a refund of the money they paid for that person’s silence.
You CANNOT be sued for telling the truth.
Jayme // July 24, 2007 at 9:23 am
I have read everyones comment. I think that everyone has good points, but overall I really dont see the point of shutting down the store. If this one gets shut down a new one will just open a couple years down the road. I just hope that everyone who is big enough to try and shut down this store is fully ready to be big enough to find all those innocent puppies homes, because if not, people will be going after you next. Just a thought.. And DIANE, that was extremely childish. You basically just proved red’s point. That they weren’t going to waste their time on this, which means not replying. And why do you automatically assume that red is a guy, thats pretty sexist, which tells me right away that I don’t want to listen to anything you have to say, because it is most likely going to be a judgement. I think that you should probably do what red is doing, and get a life. Except for the fact that they have already proved that they are the bigger person. But you should definately grow up. To everyone else, I’m not going to tell you that your opinions are wrong, but I will say that there are a lot of facts in here that are wrong, I’m also not going to list them, because I’m not here to start a fight. But I am going to say, be careful what is being said on here, you never know who might be reading this. The store will do what it wants to do, no matter what everyone thinks of it.
lbotp // July 24, 2007 at 10:21 am
Jayme — What do you mean by “Be careful what is being said on here, you never know who might be reading this?”
That sounds like a threat, and a pretty empty one at that. I have been very tolerant of the discourse here, but there are lines that should not be crossed.
Just to emphasize — once again — I don’t believe that anyone wants to shut down this store; I think it is safe to say that most people just want them to stop selling puppies. I believe, that if some of the stories posted on this blog are indeed true, that the owners of this store are sitting on a ticking time bomb. I hope they have some good lawyers.
Jayme // July 24, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Yeah I kind of figured that you all would take that as a threat considering it was no where near one, and that was the only thing that could be picked apart. I’ve seen better comebacks than that on here. And it actually reminds me of when I was a kid how if someone couldn’t come up with something better to say back in an arguement (a.k.a. a comeback) than they would run and tell. But if we are going to play that game, I would say that “I hope they have some good lawyers” is more of a threat than what I said. I was just trying to warn everyone, because like I said I know for a fact that there are people out there that are so serious about this kind of stuff that they would do anything to get people in trouble. But if you all want to continue to take it the wrong way, I’m not going to stop you from digging your holes.
diane // July 24, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Jayme — You’re right, that was really childish of me to write that response. I believe I admitted that in the response itself. I did, however, have an actual point which was probably lost in my spitefulness: red hasn’t answered any of the challenges presented to him/her and I think it’s because he/she can’t. Much like the owner of Lucky Puppy — she has been given ample opportunity and reasons to prove to the public that she is not getting her puppies from puppy mills, but rather than show actual proof she keeps telling people she’s not and then equating us to “anti-abortionists and tree-huggers” (i.e. extremists). At this point I think she’s not showing proof that the puppies aren’t from puppy mills because she CANNOT DO THAT — there is no other reason that I can see.
And you’re also correct that I assumed red was a man. I’m not sure why — I just did. However, I didn’t assume it was a man because I don’t like men, or because I didn’t agree with him/her/it. I just assumed (also, it’s standard to refer to people or a generic person as “him” in our society). If the fact that I made a single assumption about someone’s gender (not a negative assumption, simply an assumption) makes you not want to listen to any of my points … who is being judgemental now?
However, I have no real desire to get into a large argument with you over this. What I would like to point out is that just because a new store might open if this one closes is in no way a good reason for people to try to stop Lucky Puppy from selling puppies. If we can stop one store, we can stop another. And that’s a massive IF — there hasn’t been a store selling puppies in Urbana-Champaign for several years (probably over a decade).
And, as lbotp and several other people have pointed out, please note that we don’t want to shut down Lucky Puppy or have the store close — we just would like them to stop selling puppies at the mall.
emma // July 24, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Daisey,
Yes to the refund, no to anything additional except a signature.
emma // July 24, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Sorry I meant Daisy
Daisy // July 25, 2007 at 7:02 am
Emma,
If your friend was not paid a sum of money (something in addition to the refund) to keep quiet, she is free to tell her story to whomever she pleases. Don’t let anyone intimidate her (or you) into thinking otherwise.
I encourage you to encourage her to talk to the press, any press.
Jayme // July 25, 2007 at 11:32 am
Diane- If you need to tell yourself that red CAN’T respond to make yourself feel better then you go ahead and do that. And the same goes for the owner of the store, she doesn’t have to show anyone paperwork unless they are seriously interested in a puppy. Why should she waste her time showing paperwork to a million “only believe it if I see it” people every day that come in just to see if she is ligit, when there are plenty of people that go in there every day to actually see the puppies? Infact I don’t think I have ever seen a breeder that just shows paperwork just to be showing it. They just concentrate on the people who are actually there to see the puppies rather than the ones that are there to cause problems. If you don’t believe her, so what? get over it and move on, she doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone who is not a customer, how is that so hard to understand? Also some woman find it very offensive to automatically be taken as a man. Just because you aren’t proud to be a woman doesn’t mean others aren’t. I also really don’t see how not wanting to listen to you saying judgemental things is being judgemental. Thats just me deciding not to listen to someone’s bull, and that pushes me in the direction of not taking you seriously. And the fact that you just strike me as the kind of person that just has to have the last word. Like I stated already, red has already proven that they are the bigger person, and everytime you say something it just proves that point a little more, but if that is what you are going for, by all means make yourself feel better, because it is obvious that is the only way that you know how. And perhaps these “reputable breeders” that everyone is talking about aren’t selling their puppies in the store, because they can’t guarantee a warranty like the one that the store offers. The puppies do come from breeders, they sell to the store and then the store sells them for more to make a profit. And don’t even start on how bad it is to sell puppies to make a profit, because that is exactly why breeders do what they do. And just keep in mind that she doesn’t have to prove anything to you all, just the people she sells to, and if I remember correctly, she does do that. Learn to pick your battles, because not everything is worth fighting for.
Golden // July 25, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Jayme, Tom Kacich’s July 8th article in the News-Gazette mentions the vice president of sales and marketing at Lucky Puppy having prior management experience at Petland. You might want to read the following in order to gain a better perspective on this issue:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/petland.htm
moon_grrl // July 25, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Learn to pick your battles, because not everything is worth fighting for.
I’m very saddened to see this comment.
If the suffering of a helpless being isn’t worth fighting for, then NOTHING is.
Jayme // July 25, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Golden-If that is your way of telling me that I don’t know what I am talkimg about, then you can go screw yourslef, because I know all about this issue. I have already read that bull, it’s nothing but a waste of time to me.
Moon girl- As mentioned before, the puppies are not being hurt in any way, and unless you can prove to me that they are, then maybe you need to pick a better arguement. They are actually safer there than at a breeders home or in a shelter. And as for the arguement about them not having any room to run around, all the puppies are only there for a couple of days, because they get adopted out to owners who actually want the store to keep going. That is the reason why all of this is a waste of time. And that is what was meant by it’s not worth fighting for, an opinion. You have yours and I have mine, get over it. And as for being helpless, that is true. So how do you feel about euthanizing a helpless animal, because that is probably what is going to happen to these pups. They are going to become homeless, and then what are you going to complain about? The fact that there are so many homeless dogs? Well guess what, you caused it! Now think about that everytime you nag about their well-being.
Golden // July 25, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Jayme, thank you for the eloquent response. Please do not use the euphemism “adopted” in place of the word “purchased”. I find that offensive. I think you were just a trifle hard on Moon girl, btw. I doubt the puppies will be euthanized. Since the store purchases them from reputable breeders I am confident these same breeders will happily accept them if they are not purchased.
moon_grrl // July 25, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Golden-Eh, it’s ok. Jayme seems to be the kind of person that thinks the anonimity of the internet makes it OK be flat out insulting to everyone when argued with.
I’m passing the info here about the store along to some friends of mine who work in the local veternary community. The more people who know, the better.
SR // July 25, 2007 at 2:19 pm
I find it interesting that so far, no proponent of selling-puppies-at-the-lucky-puppy has been able to refrain from making long, misspelled, irrationally angry, grammatically flawed, and rhetorically faulty comments. Furthermore, I have yet to see a pro-argument based on fact or even corroborating evidence.
In the future, perhaps it would be better to ignore these posts and return to the constructive discussion and sharing of information.
Golden // July 25, 2007 at 2:45 pm
SR, couldn’t agree more. Hopefully Jayme and/or Red will use this forum as a learning experience as we go forward with a more educated, adult discussion.
lbotp, thank you for allowing this conversation on your blog.
katy // July 25, 2007 at 3:48 pm
When I first found out about the pet store, I was shocked that their were puppies being sold in stores, but only because I had never heard of it before. I went to the store and it seems really nice. The employees knew what they were talking about for the most part. But being a volunteer at the humane society and having an extreme love for animals, I could tell when they weren’t dead on with their facts. I am unsure about if the store should be shut down or not. I think that everyone who is looking for a dog should go to the humane society, but I also realize that they have a rule that you have to be 21 to adopt. I can’t tell you how many dogs I have fallen in love with there, but being only 20 I can’t adopt any of them. There are good sides and bad sides to the store. I followed the link that golden put on here and that is a horrible thing that happend to all those dogs, and that proves that you do really need to do your research about dogs and where they come from. My personal story is: I had been looking for a semi-small dog because I lived in an apartment. I was looking into different breeds and I cam across the puggle, which is the cuteset dog I have ever seen. When I was at the gordyville auction and flee market I came across a lady selling puggles. I knew by the time I left there that I wanted the one I have named Chip. He didn’t have the same markings as the other ones, he looked like a lab, but you could tell he was a puggle. Without checking the breeders out I adopted my baby for $500. This was back in february. As of now I have a $700 vet bill that I am paying on. There is nothing wrong with him, but he has had cherry eye in both eyes, and I have had him fixed, he has had a and microchipped. I love my vet, because I picked him. Also my dog is 35 pounds and the breeder told me that he would get no bigger than 20 pounds. Anyway I guess the point that I am trying to make is that, you can’t always trust the word of someone when buying a puppy, no matter where you get it from. Also I understand how horrible the other store was, but I don’t see why I should assume that lucky puppy is as bad as that store if they don’t get the puppies from puppy mills. Once again, I’m unsure of which way to go, but I see everyones point.
diane // July 25, 2007 at 7:20 pm
The only response I have to Jamye and any one who is a proponant of the store: the owner of the store should show us her dogs come from “local, reputable breeders.” She doesn’t need to show every person who walks in her door the papers for every dog, but if she could prove that her dogs are coming from local breeders, MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A LOT LESS OF A PROBLEM WITH THE STORE. I’m sorry, I know typing in call caps is really annoying, but so many people seem to be missing the point. While many people (myself included) would still not be happy to see dogs sold at the mall, we’d have a lot fewer concerns if we were convinced the puppies weren’t coming from puppy mills.
I’d like to sum up what I see as the biggest problems with the store:
1. The puppies are probably from puppy mills.
2. The puppies are being sold at the mall.
3. Puppies are being sold in a community that habitually has 25+ dogs at the humane society, plus several breed-specific rescue groups.
Not all opponants of the store may agree with me, but those are the biggest issues, in order of importance, in my mind.
And one last thing, to katy: Your response was well-written and touches on an important point: just because you get an animal from the person that bred the animal doesn’t mean the animal is going to be exactly what that person says. Research is important, both into the breed and the person you’re getting the animal from.
And massive thanks to lbotp for letting us fight on her journal. : )
Mary // July 26, 2007 at 4:42 am
Ok I have read all this fuss about the puppy shop, do I agree with it no but will I protest against it no. I do not feel the pet shop is the problem the puppy mills are. Just by stopping one store it is not going to save the world, maybe champaign. When I was 18 I did fall prey to the whole pet store purchase of a boxer puppy at the age of 8months I had a tumor removed from his leg, He had constant allergies to everything under the sun, and had to be put to sleep at the age of 5 due to a heart condition. Now this puppy was AKC registered which was suppose to be a good breeder. His name was Jake and he was very well mannered and at times I still miss his company. Now years went by and I adopted a dog from the champaign humane society his name is Larry, a very lovable puppy, but he is very hard to get trained. I am not retarted I went through 2yrs of puppy classes with my other dog so I am a responsable per owner that took a very active approach to making sure me and my pet have a healthy happy life together. After pulling my hair out I have just came to the conclusion that if I couldn’t get an animal as a puppy I would not get one. I love larry and will never give up on him but I have had for a year, he is 3yrs old and still has to be in a crate cause will go to the bathroom not only in his cage but on the floor if left alone. He has separation anxiety to make matters worse so neighbors complain cause he barks for up to two hrs after we leave.
Now for people who are unexperienced pet owners don’t you think a puppy is the way to go and is easier to manage. Plus with all the breed restrictions on rental properties the humane society is filled with large breeds and pits or mix’s. I have been looking for another on the humane society website and have been unsuccessful at what I am looking for. So even me myself wouldn’t mind having another option of where I can find a pet and I have been looking for 3 months.
SR // July 26, 2007 at 8:32 am
AKC registration does not mean it came from a “good breeder.” It simply means that the puppy is guaranteed to be the breed (e.g. Labrador, American BullDog, Jack Russell).
One tip for buying a puppy from a breeder: check out the parents of the puppy. The mother is usually on premises and the breeder should allow you to see her. It will give you a good idea of what the puppy’s temperament, appearance, and size should be. Of course, remember that males are generally larger. Also, some breeders also have the sires on premises (not always but you can always ask where the sire is so you can check him out)–another very good way to determine temperament and size. This tip is only really accurate for a purebred dog–not a designer dog such as a “puggle” or “labradoodle.” Designer dogs are a mixed bag–literally. While bloodlines and breeding of purebred dogs is well-documented by responsible breeders who have, through generations, bred only the healthiest, well-mannered examples of the breeds, a designer dog is an unpredictable crossing of two genetic lines. Many of them are very nice dogs but they can have unpredictable health problems.
Mary, perhaps you could try behavior modification with Moongazer. If you can afford it, there are a couple of good doggie daycares around as well.
katy // July 26, 2007 at 8:42 am
Thanks to diane for the compliment. I would like to point out though, and this is not to try and cause an arguement, but I have had 2 friends that have gotten puppies from the store (without me knowing in advance) and I have asked to see their paperwork and according to that, one puppy which was a pomeranian came from a breeder in rantoul, and the other one a pug came from a breeder in clinton. I’m not saying that all dogs there come from breeders because you are never sure unless you see the paperwork. But those two dogs did. I also went into the store last night with one of my friends and there was a dog there that had been there for at least 2 weeks, because she wanted him then. He is a black and white pomerarnian. I want to point out that a couple of weeks ago he was being sold for $1,099, and now two weeks later they are askimg $699 for him. I’m not sure why they dropped the price if it’s because he has been there a while or if there is something wrong with him. I convinced my friend not to get him for many reasons:
1. He has been there a while, so either something is wrong with him or who knows why.
2. he’s black and white, and we have never seen a pom that color, so we are questioning if he is even a pure bred.
3. He is way too expensive for a dog, when you can pay $85 for a dog that will love you just as much if not more at the humane society.
Well the reasons could go on, but after we left the store we were talking about it all and she informed me that her sister-in-law just bought a dog from a store up by chicago and he is extremely sick, with puppy flu, a fever, and who knows what else. Now here is another point, although I don’t like the idea of selling puppies at a store I have noticed that no puppies that have come from this store have gotten sick, which definately leads me to think that none of the puppies come from puppy mills. But I don’t know for sure. But Mary does have one point, we should go after the puppy mills. And also I would like to tell mary that if you just keep searching for your friend you will find him. The humane society gets so many new dogs in a day, but don’t ever get a puppy from there because it’s the right thing to do. If a puppy leaves there it needs to be loved and felt like you picked him above all the others, not like you had no choice. Let me know if you need any help, I am a volunteer there. Look at these pups and see what you think, and remember they update this page every hour.
http://www.cuhumane.org/adoptions/adopt_frame.html
Sorry for the long post. And I welcome comments, they just might broaden my horizons. Thanks!
katy // July 26, 2007 at 8:54 am
SR- I have heard a lot of good things about moongazer, and I would also like to say that a puggle (the breed I have) is a very good breed of dog, the only reason my dog had cherry eye in both of his eyes is because pugs and beagles are very prone to it, and this is all said from my vet. Also akc is making the puggle an official breed of dog, so it will no longer be a “designer dog.” I didn’t get my dog because he was a popular breed, I got him because he was exactly what I was looking for, and I fell in love with him. He has made my life so much better in the 6 months I have had him. I also want to say that I made the mistake of not seeing the parents, but I did see pictures of them. The breeders that I went through have been breeding puggles for 5 years, and my puggles parents are puggles, not a pug and a beagle. So he is a pure puggle which is good. So when it is officially a breed he will be a pure bred, because he came from two puggles. So definately check out the ancestry before buying a puppy. Thanks SR for stating things that needed to be said.
Golden // July 26, 2007 at 9:25 am
Katy, happy to hear you love your puggle. It will be many years before AKC recognizes Puggles or Doodles or any of the other designer breeds. I have a Goldendoodle that came from CCHS. The “selling” points of the poodle crosses are the minimal shedding and the hypoallergenic appeal. Sad to say this Goldendoodle of mine sheds more than any dog I’ve ever owned and was relinquished for shedding and because the kids were allergic to her. At the age of 3 months no less. My lucky day to find her there and a pat on the back to you for being a volunteer.
Pet stores will drop the prices on puppies that aren’t selling. Kind of like the automobile dealers that reduce prices of the ‘07 models to make room for the ‘08 models. Or Macy’s and Bergner’s reducing summer merchandise to make room for fall merchandise.
If they have dropped the price of that puppy $400 wonder how much it cost them “wholesale”? Just merchandise to them – not a living, breathing and loving puppy.
katy // July 26, 2007 at 9:47 am
Yeah, I used to be okay with the store but after that, I’m kinda disapointed. I just don’t want this store to end up like all the other bad stores, but at the same time I want to rescue all of those babies. Is there any way that we can stop them from selling puppies and make sure that the ones there get a good home? If so I will be the first one to sign up! Let me know if I can help in any way. Also my puggle sheds more than any dog I have ever seen as well. But he isn’t mixed with a poodle. I love what I do at the humane society, and I can tell that the dogs really love it too. Thanks!
diane // July 27, 2007 at 3:53 pm
mary — I’d agree that the bigger problem is the puppy mills rather than the stores that are supplied by puppy mills. However, that doesn’t mean that we should support either these stores or the people that take advantage of puppy mills to supply their stores. And unfortunately, it’s easier to protest a local store than to shut down a puppy mill. : (
emma — please have your friend look carefully at what she signed — she might be able to find a loophole (she might be able to talk annonymously, or even reveal that she signed a non-disclosure agreement which will say a lot about the store in itself, etc). While I don’t want to urge her to do anything that will either get her in trouble or make her uncomfortable, I think it’s very important these stories are heard; it’s the only way we can make the public aware of what’s going on. See if there’s a way she can speak, write, etc. on behalf of the puppies and future customers of the store.
emma // July 28, 2007 at 9:05 pm
will have to show document to someone who can give legal advice. To tell the events would be perceived as extreme negative. Also have kept receipt and credit.
deb // July 29, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I think what some are missing here is that people are most likely to keep and take care of a dog that fits what they want to own
The idea that someone in an apartment, or of an age where they dont want to exercise a large dog, should desire a Cairn Terrier but instead haul themselves off to the Humane Society to bring home a lab mix that is going to hit 70+ pounds makes no sense to me.
There are rarely small dogs at CCHS and the ones I have seen are often of an advanced age and have health problems. I know someone who adopted a 10 yr old partially blind Pug, for example, and bless her, but that is NOT for everyone. He needs daily eye drops and other medical care
Why encourage someone to take on that kind of responsibility when what they want is a 8-10 week old purebred, small breed pup?
Health testing is the other reason people give to use a ‘reputable’ breeder. The dogs at the shelter have parents who are health tested? Come on-we dont even know what breed the parents are to know what to be looking for breed specific health concerns
And I know people who have been turned down by reputable breeders because they work outside the home or have no prior experience with flat faced breeds. So, what is that party’s alternative-accept they are too stupid to learn, quit their job? Or buy a puppy elsewhere?
Reputable breeders are heavily focused on looks. They will keep a dog for 8-10 months and decide its tail is too long or its ears are too short and off it goes to another home(screened carefully, certainly, but please dont claim ‘member of the family’ unless you put your kids up for adoption when they end up with red hair)
People should educate themselves about all their options but they should also be free to make their own choices
I have no doubt that if one of those purebred French Bulldogs ends up at the shelter it will be snatched up in minutes. I, for one, have the adoption page bookmarked but I am not holding my breath!!!
SR // July 30, 2007 at 4:18 pm
deb, while you raise some very valid points regarding the popularity of smaller breeds of dogs and their resultant lower supply at animal shelters–are any of these reasons enough to purchase a puppy from a pet store/puppy mill dealer? Another good option for people searching for a smaller breed would be a breed-rescue organization. And maybe the best point you hinted at was: a dog/a puppy/any living creature is not a purchase to be made in haste. Should a person decide that he/she wants a french bulldog, cairn terrier, chinese crested, etc they should take the time to do the research, talk to breeders–if necessary make a case to the breeder that he/she will be a responsible owner, wait for the perfect dog to arrive at the humane society or rescue organization, and be patient.
Also, my apologies to the local humane society for this: try some of the shelters in some of the neighboring cities–Chicago, Indy, St Louis. Expanding your search would increase your probability of finding that perfect pooch.
You can even tell adoption people at the humane society that you are interested in a particular breed and they can notify you when one arrives.
SB // July 31, 2007 at 10:09 am
Okay, as much as I hate to admit it, I too purchased a puppy from Luck Puppy. The only defense I have is ignorance. I would not call myself stupid because that implies that I knew better and did it anyway. I was ignorant because I had no idea. I just googled Lukcy Puppy and came accross this bolg. I am horrified and scared for my puppy. I have only had him since yesterday morning and he goes for his first Vet appointment tomorrow. I pray there is nothing wrong with my puppy. I will be letting EVERYONE know about it if there is something wrong with my puppy. I encourage Mandi to talk. I have always lived by the saying….”do something right I will tell somebody. Do something wrong, I will tell everyone I know” I can guarantee I will NEVER buy a puppy from a “store” ever again.
Janet // July 31, 2007 at 3:52 pm
It is actually funny reading the whole blog after it has gone on for a while…. One could take out the word dog and stick in a number of other topics… the environment, war, etc. Yes, it is convenient just to go there and the puppies may be/seem ok, but is the easy thing to do always the right thing? How did the puppies get there? what is happening to it parents? What will happen to its future siblings? Yes you are only one person buying only one dog. But one person does make a statement. I for one want to make sure that my statement on this issue is a positive one. And, for the record, one person can make a huge difference: Rosa Parks, tank man at Tieneman Square. The way I see it, in this situation there are 3 types of people: 1. Those that think dogs are not important and don’t care about these puppies or the fact that they perpetuate the puppy mill trade just by being allowed to be in the mall, 2. those that are in fact indifferent or think that they cannot or will not make a difference, and then those that are speaking out, informing people of the facts, and are looking to not simply put a store out of business but to ensure that puppy mills do not have any one to sell their dogs too. That I believe is a noble and important cause.
deb // July 31, 2007 at 5:35 pm
SB-please dont lose any sleep over this right now. Take the pup to your vet and see what s/he says.
My problem with this issue as a whole is that IME those who are anti-puppy mill can be lose with the ‘puppy mill’ label. I don’t know anyone on this group well enough to say that but I certainly have seen it before.
I have seen the videos on TV and I abhor what I call puppy mills. But I am not going to use that term for the couple who decides to breed their female before spaying her or the ‘backyard breeders’ who keep one or two breeds in clean spacious climate controlled kennels.
I don’t know where these particular pups come from but, in my 50s, I have had my fair share of dogs-all but one from backyard breeders-that have lived long and healthy lives. My Westie is almost 15 and yes, he has had health concerns the past year-no surprise. Before that? Nothing, not even allergies which plague the breed. All my dogs have lived 12-14+ years with no health concerns before old age.
When the time comes for another dog, I MIGHT check breed rescue; or I might not. I might contact a breeder who shows or I might contact a family who bred the family pet.
I deserve that choice and NO, I do not feel I am encouraging ‘puppy mills’. Shut them down-please.
But allow people to choose how and where to choose their animals.
Then SUPPORT them so they can be educated puppy parents. People aren’t going to ask for information when they live in fear of telling anyone where they got their pup!
Janet // August 1, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Small breeders are fine as long as they are getting the parents appropriately tested for the breed, such as the CERF, OFA, PennHip tests for labradors. Poodles have several other breed problems that should be tested for. It’s not the size of the breeder but the responsibility they show
jake // August 14, 2007 at 7:32 am
To Katy and everyone else
Just because you have not read about a puppy getting sick from a store does not mean it has not happened. Think about it-that could be the worst possible news to get out. A store might do anything to ensure that. What could be the worst thing for a puppy to contract? What if that puppy was around other puppies. What if that puppy did not get the proper care from a store it should have? Could this mean hide a puppy’s sickness at all costs? What if a store would tell an owner everything was fine only for the owner to find out the worst has happened. What if the owner was treated in a hostile manner from a store. What if the owner was lied to. What if the puppy died.
Lauren // August 18, 2007 at 2:55 pm
This past Thursday I bought a puppy at the Lucky Puppy. I came home and found this blog and I must say I am worried. So far, everything with my puppy is great. My experience at the store was good and they gave me my puppy’s breeder’s name and her parent’s names. I am going to contact the breeder today. I am feeling so horribly guilty and now embarrassed when people ask where I got my puppy. She’s very lively and healthy–so far. I am worried that she might get sick in the future. Any advice is appreciated. Any other people who have bought a puppy there–I would love to talk to you. My puppy is an 8 week old Yorkie-Shih Tzu mix.
deb // August 20, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Lauren-Please contact the breeder and hear that person out
Again, there is a big difference between ‘backyard breeders’ and ‘puppy mills’. People are often so emotional over this issue, they lump them all together.
There is a chance your pup is from a puppy mill but there is a greater chance she is from a backyard breeder. Yes, the person will be in the business of making money by selling dogs. So what? If anything, that means she is interested in providing a healthy pup so you can come back in a a year for a playmate or send your neighbor to the same breeder for one just like yours.
Have a vet check the little one out.
As to what to say? Now that you have the name of the breeder, use “a lady up in Michigan” or whatever fits.
beanie // August 22, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Backyard breeders are not interested in providing healthy pups. They don’t do health testing – if they did, they wouldn’t be “making money by selling dogs.”
You can have a vet check her out, but genetic problems may not show up until she is two, three, or older.
That’s the main problem when people proclaim they have a “healthy” dog they purchased from the Lucky Puppy. My sister’s puppy, purchased unknowingly from a backyard breeder, was healthy until he was 4 years old and the first problems were found by a vet.
Now, at 7 years, he has a heart murmur, bad hips, bad knees, allergies, and a low immune system. He has developed multiple tumors, and we are lucky they are benign as putting him under for surgery is extremely dangerous with his heart murmur, and only gets more dangerous the older he grows.
Lauren, your dog will be a wonderful companion for you, probably for several years. You may have to endure heartbreak, or you may be lucky and never have to suffer any of them. Having a dog from a puppymill or a backyard breeder is not a guarantee your dog WILL be sick… it is just exponentially more likely.
Love your new dog very very much. And when people ask you where you got your dog, don’t feel ashamed. You have the ability now to help educate other people on purchasing from reputable breeders.
An 8 week old puppy was removed from it’s mother too early. Take great care that you socialize your puppy to many different dogs, people, and situations!
There is a forum located at http://www.chazhound.com/forums. I recommend you join the forum… there are lots of people available there to help you with training and socialization, and if you read the forum on Breeding I think you’ll learn a lot.
anonymous // August 22, 2007 at 2:55 pm
This comment has been edited by lbotp. Personal attacks will not be tolerated here. The name of the poster has also been changed to anonymous.
The real Lucky Puppy story has yet to be written in full. There has been much speculation about this store, what follows is disturbing inside information from a mall employee who witnessed much of this first hand about the pet shop and the proprietors Kari Pryor, and her husband Rob Wiestling .
First of all, you need to understand, everything the owners have said they are doing is false. The only possitive thing the store attempted was to bring in a representative who seemed to know what he was talking about and cared about the animals, apparently they had dissagreements because I have not seen him in weeks.
Every puppy purchased and sold at Lucky Puppy came from a dog broker in the midwest. The Hunte Corporation (800-829-4155) Lambriar Kennels (888-buy-pup1) and known puppy miller, Stephanie miller, just to name a few of their sources. I verified Pryor is a client from each of these sources. Pryor illegally removes all of her source information from the paperwork before she sells them. Next, Prior does not know anything about how to care for puppies, she disreguards her own vets instructions and treats every puppy with harsh medications, compounding sometimes as many as 5 or 6 different medications into infant animals, wheither or not they are sick.
The obvious abuse and neglect does not end there. She has these “brokers” deliver puppies to her home in Rantoul, where she jams them, sometimes 3-4 per cage, into a wire wall unit in her garage, where there is no ventilation, they have to lay in fecal matter, and her own dogs are running around exposing the babies to all sorts of disease and infestations. The last I heard when the vet came to her house, there were lice infestations, kennel cough, parvo, coccidia, guardia, and a poor almost hairless french bulldog with a severe case of mange. Her other “pets” were also there, some with newborn litters of puppies dying, and left to fend for themselves while Pryor is out running her shop. Many puppies have already died in the shop, and in the homes of new owners, Pryor was even caught lying to a lady who bought a cockapoo that died of parvo, actually telling the lady it tested negative, and placing the blame on customer neglect!
This is just a taste of what goes on in the lives and business practices of this so called friendly, family botique. I suggest you keep contacting the Market Place Shopping center, and get these people out of the Champaigne mall, and out of business! Call the mall manager Jake Poremba at 217-356-2700 ext. 11 and express your disgust!
Belize // August 22, 2007 at 11:20 pm
The post by the so-called but clearly not “Kari Prior” seems to move this comments section from discussion of a controversial issue to–depending on whether these allegations are “true” or not, not that it’s really any of our business–either slander or a very distasteful public airing of dirty laundry. Concerns about her children should be directed to the Department of Children and Family Services; concerns about animals kept at her home should be directed to Animal Control for investigation by a humane investigator.
deb // August 23, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Two people have posted here that said they were concerned and planned on calling the breeders
I sure wish they would post again and tell us if they contacted the party and, based on the post of anonymous, if the breeder really existed.
I would also like to know how their puppies were-yes, at this moment in time, but that tends to be true of health matters in general
If you two are reading, please update us!
Lauren // August 24, 2007 at 8:15 am
well here are my updates on my puppy i purchased from lucky puppy…
i took her to the vet that you are required to take new puppies within three days of purchase to. he did a fecal test, a physical examination, and listened to her heart and lungs. he said everything looked fine. i asked him how the majority of the puppies from lucky puppy have looked like to him, and he said “they have all been so healthy” etc. my puppy looks slightly bow-legged to me, and when i asked him about it, he said that is extremely common in shih tzus. (mine is a yorkie-shih tzu mix). i don’t know if that is true, and i haven’t found anything about it online.
basically, while my experience at the vet wasn’t bad, im going to take her to another vet that isn’t lucky puppy affiliated for a checkup and the rest of her vaccines.
i emailed the breeder that my dog supposedly came from and asked about her parents. the woman quickly wrote back and said that the parents are doing just fine and wished me years of happiness with my puppy. i wrote back again asking if she had any pictures of her mom and dad—she hasn’t responded. i also found that she has a website and runs a family owned business called “Tenderheart Kennels”….which sounds more like a puppymill than just a breeder to me…
i just keep worrying. like i said, so far she is your typical puppy. but i worry about what will happen in the future. i would really love to talk to some of you who have purchased a dog from this store as well for your experiences.
jake // August 24, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Well good to hear the affiliated vet is NOW doing a fecal test. To the statement all pups have been healthy- not true, or maybe he is speaking of the ones still alive. I wonder if the breeder contacted is really the breeder. You might want to google white pages and do a reverse phone check.
As to the statements from Kari, I do not think it is alright to have brought in such personal family info. However I think you must be a former employee to have knowledge about a certain situation you mentioned.
Lauren I am glad to here you have had contact with the owner, my friends were told they could not speak to the owners.
It will be a very long time before my friends will ever be able to have another puppy. You just do not get over what they went thru in a short time. Good Luck
Deb // August 25, 2007 at 9:13 am
Come on, Jake, are you telling my that these people are making such huge sums of money they can afford to pay off all the owners of all these puppies who have supposedly died?
If the store owners had that kind of hush money they would likely be retiring on an island somewhere…
More likely, the owners trotted their brand new puppy off to the dog park and PetSmart on day one where he was exposed to every germ known to dogdom. I see this every time I am in PetSmart. Those vaccinations kick in at different times for diferent pups-thats why a series is given-eventually one of them will reach an mature enough immune system and kick in. Puppies should be kept isolated until 14 weeks of age. If a dog from the store got sick, the store owners likely told the people all the possible causes of the problem and they
are now wondering if THEY are to blame
Of course it would be nice for new owners to be educated to all this. The Humane Society or dog club could be providing new puppy info for the store to hand out; the dog training club could be handing out 10% off coupons for classes; local vets could be offering discounts on neutering
And, having only been to the store once and not wishing to quiz the personnel since I was not seeking a pup, maybe some of that has been done.
If we as caring a dog community as we claim, I certainly hope so!
Lauren // August 25, 2007 at 9:30 am
deb- your comments are very reassuring to me. thank you.
jake- i dont want to sound rude/nosy, but could you go into more detail about how you know so many of the puppies have died? i’m sorry to hear your friend’s puppy died–would mind saying what the cause of death was? and how many puppies total you know personally have died?
im trying to get as many facts as i can. and again–i would really love to talk to someone who has a puppy from there themselves.
ps-my puppy is going to a different vet for another checkup this friday…
Lauren // August 25, 2007 at 9:37 am
SB- just saw your post and would love to talk to you about your puppy and experiences.
Dave - Small Dog Expert // December 2, 2007 at 8:44 pm
I totally agree and I don’t even live in that area. Dogs should never be displayed like merchandise even though the song comes to mind – how much is that puppy in the window?
This is NOT to say you can’t get a good pup at a mall pet store – many have.
But is it right?
I don’t think so…
Jae // December 12, 2007 at 10:22 am
As for all the hype and upset about them using puppy mills, the owner refuses to deal with any breeder without a thorough *personal* visit to where these pets are being bred. She doesn’t send an employee – she goes, personally. She won’t deal with a breeder if there is even a hint of ‘puppy mill’ about that breeder. There are too many people who instantly jump to this conclusion already – and without checking their facts first. If someone actually ASKS where she gets her puppies, maybe they would find out.
As for her not releasing the origin of her pups till someone puts down a deposit – because she works with small, independent breeders, she has to protect her own business. If you go to The Gap and ask where they get their product, they tell you – but you can’t go to that supplier and buy that same product for a cut rate. With an independent breeder’s name, you could just go to the breeder and buy it for less than she would sell it. So why on earth would she tell you where to go to buy it for less? Her business is to find good, reputable breeders and bring those puppies here for you to buy from her shop and then buy accessories. Wouldn’t it be bad for her business to freely tell you another location to buy it for less? Especially after she has invested HER time in finding good breeders? If you put down a deposit, she’ll make her bit of money and could tell you where it came from. Then you could investigate the location on your own, find what she did – that the location WAS a good place, then buy it from her or the breeder – whichever you choose.
Lastly, the small cages. What is she supposed to do? Rent out a Bergner’s sized store and create an indoor park for the dogs to play in? I work in a business where I go into people’s homes to work. Do you know how often I see those tiny kennel cages that a dog or cat is stuffed into every day for 8-10 hours while their owners go to work? Several times a week I see this. Do any of you freak about this? Not really… Let’s go after someone who is making money from a pet! Yeah! The average life expectancy of a dog in the US is 12.8 years. How much of that is spent at Lucky Puppy? A week or two?
Of course, I don’t expect most of you to check these things out for yourselves, as I did. This is a hot topic to knee-jerk react to. Assume guilt, protest as much as you can, and never even check things out on your own.
Golden // December 12, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Are you saying she visited Puppy Haven in Wisconsin?
Daisy // December 12, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Jae – well now I’m convinced. You asked Kari Pryor if she got her puppies from puppy mills and she said no? Well then, it must be the truth. And she visits all the “breeders” to make sure they’re not puppy mills? Now I can relax. It certainly isn’t possible that she would lie about any of this as she sells her puppies for $1000? What reason could she possibly have for lying?
I have a bridge I’d like to sell you. I didn’t buy it from a puppy mill. I’d never do that.
Please call 800-Dial-A-Chump
Jae // December 17, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Well, let’s see all the proof that she hasn’t visited them… The American way, anymore, seems that you’re supposed to assume someone is evil till they prove otherwise, then assume that the proof was faked.
I’m done here. You guys can just go on assuming the worst. Nothing will come of it other than your living lives in misery because it’s all you seem to seek.
luckypuppyfan007 // December 27, 2007 at 10:16 pm
You want to know what I think? I think that you all have NO FREAKING LIFE!!!!!!!!! You cn say all you want, but GUESS WHAT!!!!!! Lucky Puppy is still open and selling wonderful companions EVERY DAY!!!!!!! My mom bought me a puppy from there for Christmas. A Poo-chon. Wonderful dog. And guess what….the people that work there ACTUALLY CARE!!!!!!!! about hmmmmm……….lets think here. ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they care about their puppies and they care about their customers. So just GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!! Lucky Puppy is an amazing store, and I LOVE the dog that I recieved from there. And Lucky Puppy was SO amazing that guess where I’m geting my next puppy………LUCKY PUPPY!!!!!!!!!!! They have amazing dogs and an amazing and knowledgeable staff. And no matter what you all write on this stupid site, the fact is that Lucky Puppy is STILL up and runnuning, despite what you losers think. SO SUCK IT UP AND GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
luckypuppyfan007 // December 27, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I am sorry for my last comment. I was enraged. I now feel bad, but you have to understand I was only standing up for the store, as I think they are a good thing. I truly am sorry. I believe that you all are good people and are not at all losers. I ask for your forgiveness, as I am very sorry. I was not acting as a mature adult. That is entirely my fault. I just wanted to say that I was sorry and take back the message that I previously wrote.Please forgive me.
Golden // December 28, 2007 at 10:46 am
I’m glad that you defined yourself as an “adult”. And that it only took you six minutes to apologize.
new_user // December 30, 2007 at 4:15 pm
i have also heard that puppies from lucky puppy are from puppy mills. Myself, i will be purchasing my new pet from the humane society. safest way to go.
Golden // December 31, 2007 at 11:10 am
On a visit to LP last week-end I noticed a new breed of dog which they labeled as “Teddy Bear”. I’m pretty knowledgeable when it comes to dogs and there is NO breed named “Teddy Bear”. There were also two puppies that looked familiar to me but I couldn’t be certain … “Miniature St. Bernard”. Just in time for Christmas.
Daisy // January 4, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Tonight (Friday, Jan 4) at 7:00 pm the National Geographic Channel will start a series on Best Friends Animal Shelter in Utah. Part of the story will deal with puppy mills. Here’s a link.
http://www.sltrib.com/sundance/ci_7872495
There is a second episode on Friday, Jan 11th. Hopefully, they will show the series several times.
Mel // January 6, 2008 at 6:20 am
We are seriously thinking about geting a puppy from Lucky Puppy. We have been looking at all the shelters for a dog/puppy for our family. We don’t wanta large dog because our children are young and our house is not big enough to house a large breed. The humane society had little to no choices in small breed dogs and hello, the ones they did have were housed in tiny cages. Most of the dogs there had medical problems. We’ve looked at local breeders but none have the kind od dog were looking for. We’ve beento the Lucky Puppy several times and are not making our decision lightly. Sure some of the puppies have been tired, have you never seen a dog take anap, most of the time they’re playing and happy. For some of you that are so against the store, you visit there an awful lot. A lot of breeders can be classified as puppy mills, there nothing to say that a breeder isn’t overbreddeing their dogs. If the owner says she visits the breeders how can you prove she’s not. You can’t. People shouldn’t make assumptions and get on their high horses unless they can backup what they’re saying
SR // January 7, 2008 at 11:05 am
Okay, on the very unlikely possibility that the Lucky Puppy store does not get its supply from puppy mills: I would still adamantly oppose a store that sells live animals in the mall–a dog is a 15-20 year committment and should be treated as such. Selling animals in the mall promotes impulse purchasing. Furthermore it is an unhygenic way to treat puppies at a very vulnerable stage of their immune development. An eight week old puppy has not had its full complement of vaccinations and human beings can carry a number of illnesses which can be fatal to puppies. A responsible purveyor of animals would not expose animals so publically.
Finally, Mel, I’m sorry you’re having difficulty finding the right puppy. Since you mention that you do have small children, I encourage you to keep looking at breeders–the AKC website can point you to ones in neighboring states. While some breeders might not have puppies available immediately, they’ll be able to tell you when they’re planning to breed a litter and you can plan accordingly. Furthermore, especially since you have young ones, ask the breeders to meet the adult dogs: the temperament of the parents is a very good indicator of the temperament of the future puppy. While it’s not a guarantee, it’s a reassurance that this lineage will be compatible with your family. I doubt that the Lucky Puppy can arrange for you to meet the dam and sire of any puppy in the store: another reason not to purchase an animal in the mall. A good breeder will also take returns.
Daisy // January 7, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Mel, the Humane Society does get small breed dogs, but they get adopted very quickly. If you want, you can participate in the Match A Pet program. There are details on the website: http://www.cuhumane.org.
Or, consider going through a breed rescue. If you go to www. petfinder.com, you can enter your preferences (size, breed, age) and then your zip code. They will list the animals that match your preferences and where they are. There are many breed rescues within easy driving distances of CU.
Adopting your new family member from a humane society or from a rescue group may require a little more time than a trip to the mall, but it’s time well-spent to save the life of a homeless pet.
sfiu // January 8, 2008 at 1:12 am
I have been to puppy haven and id like to inform you all that it is a state of the art dog kennel, as far as kennels go. EVERY dog has food , water shelter inside heated, large runs for play, pens are CLEAN and dogs dont sit in their waste.. The puppy and mother areas are well ventalated and lighted and all pens are in the air so all waste falls. There are 24 hr h2o systems and food always in pens. Pens are at least 6 feet long by 4 foot wide and moms only stay in there for 6-8 weeks and are NOT put back to breed ( the adverage bitch has 1.2 litters a year) they arent baby factories. if you are looking at a pup from puppy haven you should not worry at all. I cant speak for any other kennel , I do know that puppy haven really only breeds mixes (teddie bears “shitzu/bichion puggles, peewees ect.) They dont breed pure breeds.
Dont get me wrong are there kennels or brokers that should be shut down YES!!! If The store only sold pups from puppy haven you should not have any problem and if you want to go see it just call the owner he will set up a time.
The USDA uses it as the perfect example as to how kennels should be.
I am not an employee or family member of puppy haven just a person that feels people I hope will rest a bit easier knowing that puppy haven pups are loved and taken care of and the parents of the pups.
Melissa // January 8, 2008 at 9:53 am
sfiu says:
“…puppy haven pups are loved and taken care of and the parents of the pups.”
Um, I think the math might prove that wrong. If Puppy Haven has 14 employees to care for 1600 dogs, that means that even if they all worked full time (though they don’t—some are part time), each would be in charge of 114 dogs every day. Calculate out that in a forty hour work week, those employees are working a total of 560 hours (which they aren’t since some are part time). That means that each day, in order to care for 1600 dogs, employees can spend three minutes on each dog.
That’s also assuming that every minute of the eight-hour work day is spent directly caring for the dogs—no answering phones, no lunch or bathroom breaks, no stopping for anything. Is less than three minutes a day enough time to spend on a dog?
Obviously not.
sfiu also says:
“The USDA uses it as the perfect example as to how kennels should be.”
Then why have they issued these violations to Puppy Haven?
On a Wisconsin breeder (Wallace Havens, Puppy Haven Kennel) who has been widely publicized in the media as the “inventor” of the Puggle and other trendy cross-breeds:
Dec. 8, 2005: “At the time of this inspection, Building 4 was 44.3 degrees Fahrenheit and Building 5 was 45.0 degrees Fahrenheit. The dogs are housed on damp or wet concrete. There are no mats or other means of conserving body heat. … Number of animals affected: 430.”
Feb. 24, 2005: Repeat NCI [Non-Compliance Identified]: Seventy-five percent of the right eye of the Pug with Avid # 073-102-854 is dry and necrotic-looking. The Bichon with Avid #068-789-875 has hair loss and skin lesions. The affected areas are on the dog’s left side and across its shoulders. The condition covers approximately 25% of the animal’s body. Neither of these animals has been seen by the attending veterinarian.”
Feb. 24, 2005: “The temperature at the time of this inspection was 2.3 degrees F. The temperature at the time of the exit review was -3 degrees F. Sixteen of the outdoor enclosures have heating pads to compensate for the cold temperatures. Sixty-two of the outdoor enclosures have a stemmy hay used as bedding. There is not a sufficient quantity of this material in the den boxes … Number of animals affected: 352.”
sfiu // January 8, 2008 at 11:50 am
nice job on pasteing and cutting!!!
there are no way 1600 dogs at the kennel not near. all i have to say is call him go there you will see.
so do you all protest just shops that sell puupies or any live animals. have you ever gone to a reptile show or bird show or fish show? those animals are being sold and bred for pets also.
you should all be going after the back yard breeders and big mills that are not inspected and those are the animals that need your help. the dogs at puppy haven have the usda to look out for them every month sometimes twice.
Melissa // January 8, 2008 at 1:26 pm
So does the New York Times, who actually (to my disgust) printed a favorable article about Wallace Havens operation, have some reason to lie? Here is what they printed:
It took awhile. The dim, 4,300-square-foot building housed about 400 dogs, most of them puppies, in 120 elevated cages. It is one of three whelping houses at the Puppy Haven Kennel, the 1,600-dog compound that Havens has built up over the last 30 years in the outlands north of Madison, Wis. Nearby, an affable elderly couple hosed feces from slats below the cages, and their daughter, another of Havens’s 14 paid employees, swiftly handled one squeaking pup at a time, issuing dewormer.”
And yes, I copied and pasted this directly from the article on the New York Times website (which again was a positive article in favor of his operation). Maybe you only toured one building while you were there?
Melissa // January 8, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Oh, and one more thing. I can’t go visit the kennel in its entirety for the following reasons, as quoted on the Puppy Haven website in the Q&A section. I guess sfiu must have had a special security pass.
Q. May people visit your kennel?
A. USDA and inspectors from the State may come through any time and they do but they are very careful. We do not take the general public through for the following reasons:
1. The biggest U S based terrorist group according to the FBI is ALF and ELF. Many animal activists think all kennels are bad and would like to damage them. We are concerned they may try to do something bad to us or our kennel as they have others.
2. It is very easy for people to accidentally carry in diseases such as Distemper, Hepatitis, Lepto, Brucellosis, Parvo and Pneumonia to mention a few.
3. It is easy for people to accidentally bring in external parasites such as Lice, Mange of different kinds, Fleas and Ticks.
They could also accidentally bring in some bad internal parasites such as Hook Worms, Tape Worms and Round Worms for example.
4. Some dogs with young puppies get very excited when they see or smell a stranger near their puppies. They sometimes kill their puppies while trying to save them from a stranger.
sfiu // January 8, 2008 at 2:28 pm
just call and ask. he let you see for yourself.
no passes needed. i have seen every building there and been in everyone.
Golden // January 8, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Perhaps, sfiu, he thought you might be interested in purchasing this business of his as it is for sale.
sfiu // January 8, 2008 at 7:58 pm
you may be right.
sfiu // January 10, 2008 at 11:21 am
to everyone that is concerned with puppy haven.
i just spoke to the owner of the kenel and they would welcome any questions anyone may have.
i gave them the address of this blog and will be looking for them.
hope this helps
samman // January 10, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I am a person who works at a pet shop. We sell pups, kittens, smal animals, reptiles and fish.
We treat the animals like they were our own and all get time to play and run and spend time with whoever comes into the store. We dont ask if hey are serious about buying a pup or not.
All our pups are healthy and come from a breeder kennel that takes very good care of the dogs. Is USDA inspected and vet inspected twice a month. I wouldnt call it a puppy mill to what ive sen on you tube and the store only gets pups from this kennel no other kennel so nothing can pass from pup to pup.
I would say I feel bad for the reptile that we get. They are kept in very small units until they get to our store.
If the pet shop you are speaking about is keeping the pups in bad conditions and they are sick i feel you have all the right to try and stop this shop or at least try and get the conditions better for the pups.
When people ask where we get our dogs from we tell them about the kennel and if they ask if its a puppy mill I give my thoughts on what a mill i feel a puppy mil is and what puppy pipeline is. I then let them decide for themselves if it is a mill and go from there.
thanks!!!
Melissa // January 17, 2008 at 10:50 am
sfiu, you still didn’t answer two of my most pointed questions. How can anyone think the puppies are being cared for when employees can only spend 3 minutes per dog, which is a calculation based on the FACTS given by the NY Times article? It’s simple math. Divide the number of dogs by the number of employees and hours they work.
My other question, which you failed to answer, is how the USDA could possibly hold Puppy Haven up as an example when they have been sited BY the USDA for inhumane conditions? (see the list above)
I really don’t understand how people think that they can just call Wallace Havens and he’s going to tell them the truth. He has every reason to NOT tell the truth………he makes $60o,000 a year doing what he’s doing.
sfiu // January 18, 2008 at 11:28 am
melissa,
didnt know i was to answer, sorry.
the usad only has 5 or six write ups in over 30 years, thats pretty good!
have you ever looked at the USDA violations from the stock yards or slaughter houses your meat you eat comes from?? you would be amazed!! talk about animals being treated bad. but you seem to only care about dogs no other animal. right?
as far as time, these are not “house dogs” they dont trive for that type of attention. they care about food , shelter and being with their pac. they dont want hugging and that type of stuff.
it would be different if we took you own pet dog and threw it in the kennel. its know that type of treatment and would still depend on it.
Anyday day melissa you are welcome to go there to see it with your own eyes.
Golden // January 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm
sfiu,
What does this mean?
… these are not “house dogs” they dont trive for that type of attention. they care about food , shelter and being with their pac. they dont want hugging and that type of stuff.”
I certainly hope you don’t share your life with a companion animal.
komoncents // January 18, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Dogs have to be trained to like people. They are born to be with other dogs. When I take my pet dog out, even though he is use to being my closest friend, if he sees another dog he wants to be with it. If dogs are use to eating any time they want to, drinking from a fountain, not a stale bowl when they want to, going outside when they want to, barking when they want to. Making love when things are right. They enjoy that kind of life believe it or not. Probably as much as they do being someones pet.
Being someones pet they may have to be led around by the neck, they may have to wait until someone lets them outside before they can relieve themselves, they may have to drink from a stale bowl of water, they may not get to eat any time they feel hungry. They may have to follow many rules about NO BARKING, NO LIFTING THEIR LEG. NO SEX, NO CHEWING.
sfiu // January 20, 2008 at 10:41 am
Oh my god!!!!! THANKS GOLDEN!!! i tottaly forgot that I havnt fed or played with my dog in over two weeks!!! also its been tied up to a tree!
komoncents says it perfect, they would rather be with dogs than people. if they have never know contact with humans they dont want it or need it. so dont compare house dogs “pets” to breeding and or kennel “show” dogs. remember show dogs are used for the same thing havens kennel , they breed dogs to sell to either other breeders or for pets. the reason breeders dont sell to pet shops , isnt because of thier high standards it because they can already get the top $$ out of buyers, because they claim to be breeders. pets shops need to sell for profit so a breeder would have to discount the pups.
by the way how is lucky puppy doing now, i bet with all this up roar you people have made and all the tv news and papers I bet it is selling the hell out of puppys!!
Guesss what IT ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!! they couldnt buy that type of advertising!!! it draws people in like crazy and when they get there they see that the pups are well taken care of and fall in love and buy one. all because of you people that think you can save the world”dog world”.
Why dont you spend your time on closing down the “true bad breeders” there are many in your own back yard, and leave luckuy and haven alone.
none of you have the gutts to even call or go there. WHY because you would see the truth and all your dreams of sick , dead , starving, small caged dogs would be washed away!!!!
SR // January 20, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Well, “komencents” is correct that dogs have to be properly socialized with people and other dogs in order to function properly in families and packs respectively. This fact only substantiates the position of all humane societies and humane humans that–purchasing a puppy or dog from a puppy factory like puppy haven, which as “sfiu” says does not provide adequately socialized puppies, is a terrible mistake. After all, if these are not “people-dogs”, should they be breeding them and selling them to families?
Truly, any dog that is not used to being around children can be dangerous to them. Thank you sfiu and komencents for making my point.
komoncents // January 20, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The puppies are certainly socialized the first 8 weeks so they are ready for their new homes. The puppies that are kept for breeding will go in with their pack or dog family and will not be “crate trained” etc.
komoncents // January 20, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Some of the plusses about buying a puppy from a business like Lucky Puppy are-
1. They will be more likely to stand behind the puppy than a small place. They do not want any bad publicity. They want you to send a friend to buy one from them.
2. They are more likely to be able to advise you on the correct care for the puppy.
3. They will be there to help you after you purchase the puppy any time they are open.
4. They will certainly do their best to buy the very best, healthiest and cutest puppies to have available for you. They are not stuck with what ever the Mama dog has.
5. They will know just where to send you for the best Vet care, food and other supplies.
6. They will have staff that is more professional than most small places.
7. They do their best to buy from the best kennels then only take the best puppies to sell their customers. Why would they want to do it any other way?
sfiu // January 20, 2008 at 4:03 pm
your welcome SR for making all your fairy tales come true in your world. I dont belive i said how the pups were socialized or introduced to humans. They are held and socialized every day from the people who work in the puppy room.
agian all of you keep shooting your unknowing mouths off about things you have no idea about.
oh have i said GO SEE IT FOR YOURSELVES!!!!!
and SR lived happy ever after!
SR // January 20, 2008 at 4:11 pm
sfiu–I have been unfailingly polite and used proper grammar and punctuation in addressing you. I would encourage you to do the same since ethos is important if you expect to convince anyone of any argument.
Furthermore, if you would like to continue this discussion in person, I would be happy to since there are many things I would prefer to say to your face.
komencents, I realize you are simply defending your business. You certainly have your right to run your business as you see fit. Just as I have a right to believe what I do based on real data from the American Humane Society as well as the American Kennel Society–the two most reputable dog resources in this country who certainly disagree with your position.
sfiu // January 20, 2008 at 5:53 pm
meet a at havens anyday my friend.
lbotp // January 20, 2008 at 6:27 pm
I think this discussion is over, and since this is my blog I will have the final word.
Kommoncents — there is no evidence to suggest that lucky puppy has any of the qualities that you mention.
Puppies are not merchandise. They are live animals that need love, training and care. They should not be sold in a mall next to the Gap. Period. The End.
Like gas stations in rural Texas after 10 pm, comments are closed.